[Note: the comments in this post refer to v.7 alpha 2.]
Wow, a lot of big changes in this version (BS7a)! I am a user of BS6 with about 50 folders, made up of about 10 top-level folders and various subfolders of those. Numerous references are cross-filed into more than one folder. In order to be able to use BS7 effectively, it seems I will need to work with a different organizational scheme since in BS7 one reference can go into just one folder. Apparently, I'll need to shift to "categories" to achieve the same sort of cross-filing.
With that in mind, here are some notes about my experiences with categories so far. In no particular order:
- If I have a folder selected in the Folder List and then try to drag a reference from the References into an existing category listed in the Tabs pane, nothing happens. The reference doesn't get added to the category. Ideally, users should be able to drag-and-drop one or more references in a single action from the References pane to a category in the Tabs pane.
- In the Tabs pane, with the Categories tab open, if I double-click on the name of a parent category, two things happen at the same time: (1) the category collapses/expands to hide/reveal the child categories and (2) the references in that category get displayed in the References pane. It's kind of annoying that both of these things happen at the same time; in my case, I prefer to keep the category expanded, and if it always collapses when I double-click on the parent category then I have to keep going back and expanding it again. It would be better if the category would collapse/expand *only* when the user clicks on the +/- mark.
- Again in the Tabs pane, the expanded state of categories does not persist when you exist and restart the application. If I'm working with my categories expanded (to show the child categories), I want it to be the same way when I restart the application next time. (This doesn't necessarily need to be the default behavior, but it would at least be nice to have an optional setting for this.)
- Similarly, the open tab in the Tabs pane does not persist when the application is restarted. If I'm working in the Categories tab, I want that Tab to be open again the next time I start up BS. What happens now is that BS always starts up with the Search tab open.
- In the Tabs pane, with the Categories tab open, there's no way to create a new category. There should be a quick and easy way to do this from that view -- such as right-click | New Category, or clicking on a small button in the Categories tab.
- When I select Categories in the Folder List, there's now a Categories pane in the middle. In this middle Categories pane, problem #2 above (two different actions when double-clicking) happens here also. Likewise, the collapsed/expanded states of categories here do not persist.
- In the same view (with the Categories pane in the center), the Tabs pane shows a list of references corresponding to the selected category when the Categories tab is selected. This is nice, but there's very little that you can do with the references listed there. You cannot sort them by clicking on a column heading, or open a reference by double-clicking on it, or do other actions by right-clicking on a reference. You can't re-categorize a reference by dragging it onto a different category name in the center pane. You can't drag a reference into a different folder in the Folder List pane.
- Back in the regular Folder List view, with a folder selected, if I select a reference and click the Categorize button, in the little window that pops open there is always one "phantom" blank category listed at the top of the list of categories. It has no name, and it does not show up when I select Categories in the Folder List pane.
Well, that's about it so far. I know I'm testing an alpha build, but I really hope that the categories feature will be MUCH easier to work with when the final BS7 is released.
Thanks for listening.
My computer, if it matters: WinXP Home - Japanese version.
EDIT: these (below) were added after the initial post. I'm putting them here to make this thread easier to read.
9. It would be nice to have an easy way to view all references that do not belong to any categories.
10. When you select a single reference and click the Categorize button (or use right-click | Categorize), it should show which categories the reference already belongs to. As it is now, I don't know how to find this out without double-clicking on the reference and looking in the Categories tab.
11. Small bug: when you go to the Categories module and rename an existing category, and then go back to the References module and look in the Categories tab, the renamed category still shows the old name.
12. Also, when trying to rename categories, I often get error messages #10258 ("Record in the table 'category' is in use by another user"). This especially seems to happen if I'm using or have used Japanese characters in the category name.
13. How do I make a child category into a top-level category? I can't see how to do this.
testing now with alpha 3
Here's what I've seen about the above-mentioned issues, via some very quick testing with alpha 3.
1. Drag-and-drop into categories has very unpredictable results, especially when more the reference belongs to more than one category. Sometimes, drag-and-drop causes nothing to happen, sometimes it applies one category but removes the other categories, sometimes it applies the wrong category. (Per your instructions, I tried rebuilding the database but was informed that there was no corruption to be fixed.)
2. Works for me. But as I noted below, I still think it would be better to have single-clicking on a category display the matching records. The less clicking needed, the better.
3. Not fixed. When restarting BS, the category nodes are collapsed, even if they were open when I exited the app.
4. Works for me.
5. Works for me, via the new right-click menu.
6. Partially fixed. The doube-clicking issue is fixed, but the categories always revert to being collapsed -- even if I just go to another module and then come back to the Categories module.
7. Sorting by column heading works, and double clicking on a reference also works. It'd still be nice to have more functionality here, though.
8. Works for me. The phantom category no longer appears (and I'm using the same database as before).
9. Advanced search for "categories - is empty" or "categories - is blank or empty" still returns only 2 results. There should be many more. (Rebuild Database only tells me that there's no corruption.)
10. Works for me, with single references.
11. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Example of failure: restarted BS, went to Categories module, slowly double clicked on a category so it would let me rename it, typed in a new new and hit Enter, then went to References module. Results: (a) the new name isn't shown in the Categories tab, (b) when I go back to the Categories module, the new name isn't showing there either, and (3) when I try again to rename it in the same manner, I get error #10258 ("in use by another user").
12. See #11, above.
13. There's now a right-click menu for this, but what happens why I select "Move Category Up" is that the child category -- instead of getting moved up -- becomes the child of another category.
1. I will try to reproduce
1. I will try to reproduce the problems with drag and drop.
2. Single click is considered. I want to hear more from others.
3. Biblioscape can not remember open status of individual notes. We made it go to the last opened category item. If that is a child node, only that node will be opened. Do you think make categories all opened at startup is better than all closed?
9. Which module you are in when the advanced search is done?
11. This bug will be fixed in B7A4.
13. If the selected category has grandparent, and you clicked Move Category Up, it will become the child of its former gradnparent.
3. So it's the same
3. So it's the same situation as with folders in version 6.x. That's too bad. Well, maybe the best thing would be to have them closed but have it so that a closed node will automatically pop open during a drag a drop, when you hover a dragged item over a closed node for .5 second or so (and do the same with folders). If that can't be done, then I'd personally prefer to have them all open normally, but people with too many categories to fit on the screen might prefer them closed normally.
9. I'm using the main Folders view, which list all the folders plus the various modules below. What I've found is that a search for "folders - is blank or empty" returns exactly the same results as a search for "categories - is blank or empty". Something's wrong with that.
13. My categories are only 2 levels deep, as shown below. Here's what happens:
Initial state (where a and b are child categories):
category 1
-----category a
-----category b
category 2
category 3
category 4
After moving category b "up" (right click | Move Category Up):
category 1
-----category a
category 2
category 3
-----category b
category 4
Category 3 has a Japanese name. Maybe that has something to do with it.
3. During drag and drop, if
3. During drag and drop, if the mouse pointer stays at the + sign for more than 0.5 sec, that node will open automatically.
9. Sorry, I didn't get it. Is the search done against references? notes?
13. That is not right. It is possible the bugs in alpha release corrupted the category table index. Please go to "File | Database | Rebuild Database". Then try it and see if you can reproduce the bug.
Thanks,
Paul
3. Right you are. I was
3. Right you are. I was hovering over the category name or icon.
9. References. Here's how it looks when the search is done from the plain References module.
Interestingly, when I do an advanced search for "categories - contains - Xylanase", I get 12 hits, even though I do not have such a category. There is a folder called Xylanase, but not a category. It seems that for me, advanced category search is searching for categories AND folders.
13. Rebuild Database tells me there are no corruptions; I can reproduce it always.
When converting an old
When converting an old database to version 7, Biblioscape reproduce the folder structure using categories. Since version 7 changed folder to references relationship to one-to-one. The categories will maintain the old many-to-many relationship. These categories are under the folder "old folders". Even though you didn't assign any category to a reference, they are assigned automatically during conversion. This may be the reason you think the categories search not working.
Suggestion: numbered categories
Perhaps you find this feature helpful: Biblioscape could make possible to number the categories just like topics: 1; 1.1.; 1.1.1; 1.1.2 and so on. I should be just an option for each user. That might be specially helpful if you create a category similar to book/thesis chapters.
Milene
another suggestion, a couple bugs, and a question
10. When you select a single reference and click the Categorize button (or use right-click | Categorize), it should show which categories the reference already belongs to. As it is now, I don't know how to find this out without double-clicking on the reference and looking in the Categories tab.
11. Small bug: when you go to the Categories module and rename an existing category, and then go back to the References module and look in the Categories tab, the renamed category still shows the old name.
12. Also, when trying to rename categories, I often get error messages #10258 ("Record in the table 'category' is in use by another user"). This especially seems to happen if I'm using or have used Japanese characters in the category name.
13. How do I make a child category into a top-level category? I can't see how to do this.
10. It was originally
10. It was originally designed that way. The feature was taken out becasue we think it is confusing when multi-selection and single selection is handled differently. But, I think your suggestions is right. I will try to make that feature come back. I think when a singel record is selected, the "Add" and "Remove" button should be removed and change the "Cancel" button to "Close".
11. This is already fixed. Thanks.
12. This problem may be caused by index corruption. You can go to "File | Database | Rebuild Database". Once the final release get those bugs fixed, this should not happen.
13. Popup menu will be added later for moving an item up.
10. With multiple
10. With multiple selections, what you could do is use a very grayed-out checkmark (perhaps even with a grayish background for the checkbox itself) to indicate categories that are only being used with some of the selected references. In other words, you'd have 3 checkbox states: (1) checked for all selected references [black checkmark on white background], (2) checked for no selected references [no checkmark, white background], and (3) checked for some but not all selected references [e.g., gray checkmark on light gray background]. This is how Word works when, for instance, a range of selected text has different font formatting applied in different areas. When you select that whole range of text and open the Fonts dialog, you see checkboxes in all 3 states. It works well and is not confusing.
Thank you for your
Thank you for your suggestion. It seems may be OK if there is only a check box tree. With an additonal free tagging edit box, it is very hard to implement.
one more suggestion/request
9. It would be nice to have an easy way to view all references that do not belong to any categories.
That is easy. Go to the
That is easy. Go to the Advanced Search and select the field "Categories" and chose "Is Empty". Then click the Add search to folder button.
Aha. And then I could save
Aha. And then I could save the search as a folder. That would be perfect.
Unfortunately, when I do an advanced search for "categories - is empty" or "categories - is blank or empty," I get only two results even though there should be many more. Likewise, "categories - is not empty" turns up 76 references, even though many of them are in fact not categorized. Other advances searches (e.g., "year - equals - 1991") seem to work OK.
I'm using the pre-installed test database, with just 3 or so new references added.
Since it is still in alpha,
Since it is still in alpha, there are bugs causing index corruption. The next alpha release will fix a couple of such problem. Please go to "File | Database | Rebuild Database" and then do a search immediatly to see if that works.
Rebuilding didn't work, but
Rebuilding didn't work, but I'll try to check again with the next alpha or beta build.
1. Fixed. After installing
1. Fixed. After installing alpha 3. Please go to "File | Database | Rebuild Database" to fix the index corruption. This bug is fixed.
2. Double now will only run a query, not open or close the tree node.
3. Last used category will be select in the next session.
4. Last used tab will be remembered in alpha 3.
5. Popup menu will be added later.
6. I cannot reproduce this. Please go to categories module. Do a search and delete the empty item.
7. Sorting is enabled. Double click to open will be added later.
8. The categories will in Categories module will behave the same way as shown in point 2.
Thanks,
Paul
clarifications
Great! I will try to do some more testing when alpha 3 is released. (Note: in your reply above, it looks like your #6 matches #8 in my original post, and your #8 matches my #6.)
A few comments on the above:
2. After having mulled this over some more, I think the best way to do this would be to make the click-actions for categories as consistent as possible as those for folders, and this consistency should be carried over between the Categories module and the Categories tab (when using the References module). Here's what I mean:
Current:
More consistent :
3. Will the expanded/collapsed state of the category tree persist as well? That's what I meant.
7. It would be ideal if the list of references shown via the Categories module could have most (if not all) of the right-click functionality that's currently available when viewing references in the References module: Open, Print, Select All, Toggle Mark, etc. I myself will probably be using the Categories module rather than the References module most of the time when "browsing" my references, and I want to be able to do everything easily from that module.
8. (#6 in your post) The phantom category doesn't show up in the Categories module. But it does always appear when I right-click on a message and choose Categorize. I found that I could rename the phantom category via right-clicking like this, but it still doesn't show up in the Categories module. If I try to search from the Categories module, I get an "Access violation" error. Maybe I should send you the file so you can examine it. (If yes, please tell me which file and where to send it.)
2. Having consistency is
2. Having consistency is good. But, folders, categores tree (notes, tasks, charts), and categoris tab are designed for different functions. A clicking pattern good for one control may not be the best for the other. The right clcik popup menu will be added for all. The double click and single click is open to change. I want to hear more from others. Thanks.
7. Some actions will be added to the popup menu. Some actions require the parent module. You can use the categories tab on references module also.
8. You can zip all the category.* files under your database folder and email it to support@biblioscape.com
2. Hmm, you may be right,
2. Hmm, you may be right, but I'm not yet convinced. ;) Anyway, yes it would definitely be good to hear more from other users. The reason I've been focusing on categories so much is that I think they'll be an extremely important feature in version 7. As I mentioned above, categories will probably become my primary way of organizing and browsing my references, and so I want them to be as easy and intuitive to use as the current folders scheme.
8. Will do.
Thank you for your attention to all these issues! -- Chris